I created this great post and misspelled a couple of words. When I went to fix them, I lost the whole post! ARRGHH! I was trying to think of a Friday Funny.
All that really occurred to me was Grant's potty accident. He did not make it twice this morning, but was trying for a third time. Unfortunately, the potty chair he has does not have a boy shield that is high enough. So, although he was in the right place, he and the floor were soaked. What can you say, he DID pee on the potty. Kind of funny?
Since Jennifer started her blog, she has had a lot of in depth topics. Some days I am too overwhelmed with the "urgent" to participate. But I so appreciate a place to exercise my mind when I am surrounded by children most of the day.
Lately I have been contemplating some doctrinal issues. Last week I was asked point blank to defend the point of Calvinism at the end of the Tulip: predestination. Specifically , " If those who will be saved have already been chosen, why bother to witness?" I have my own answer, but would appreciate some input.
On my journey, I have been mostly Armenian(or is that the spelling for the people group?), but always what Jennifer defines as Charismatic, and found I was also reformed. Back in the day you could not advertise that in the Baptist church. I really like the way Sovereign grace churches word their doctrine. In any case, I'd like some other answers to this question.
I found out this week that when the symbols <3 are used in a typewritten message they do not mean lass than three. It represents a heart. I think that is funny.
About Me
- Chastains
- I am a homeschooling mom who enjoys many things, but has time for very few, at the moment , at least.
7 comments:
Great! A DEEP blog! Mine started out that way, but lately it seems I just post family info and photos. Thanks for the challenge. I grew up with the TULIP in conservative Presbyterian circles, and while we are in that season of a local church, I have learned so much from traveling the world, being in military chapels of great diversity, and worshiping in a congregation of several ethnicities and doctrinal backgrounds (Grace Japan). I believe Scripture is true when it says He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. I encourage everyone I know to test their faith and to perhaps even dabble in other churches as I have done to make sure of their own faith. What is your personal statement of faith? It should define other things we do. Mine is still developing, and there are major things that are more important to me, such as eternal security. Some things, such as sacraments/ordinances, I tend to grow weary discussing at this stage of the game. Maybe sometime, though. I'll blog on it, and maybe we can link to each other's. Iron sharpens iron!
Actually, the "end" of TULIP stands for "Preservation of the Saints" - that those whom God calls and seals as His own will be His for all eternity (eternal security). Predestination comes under many of the points in one package typically referred to as Reformed Theology - 1. Total Depravity of Man, 2. Unconditional Election, 3. Limited Atonement, 4. Irresistable Grace, and the 5th already mentioned. It isn't easy to swallow this when we have any of self in the way, but (gulp), it's all through Scripture as God shows us His plan of grace from start to finish. I'm leading the Precept Covenant class at PWOC -- and it's full of God's sovereign grace -- from Genesis to Revelation. It makes me want to lie down prostrate and makes me wonder why He decided to chose any of us at all....
Thanks for the clarification! I was asked the question that way and did not research it before posting. I have always been about eternal security(I think you know that), but yes, some of the doctrinal differences are non-issues for me. My personal statement of faith is changing, and that is why I found it interestingthat I was asked that particular question, out of the blue. Now you know that was God.
My blog was meant to be family info and pix. I just occaisionally get a little philosophical. Do you read Jenneifer Partin's blog?
I will send you the link to Sovereign gGrace's staement. It is the closest to mine. They are reformed charismatic. you remember we attended one when we first moved here.
Laura,
After reading your blog I did a lot of thinking, searching of scripture, several concordances, and even spoke with Darrell. After all of this, I continue to be of a mind that predestination is not something we should become bogged down in. I fully believe that God is an awesome God who planned for our salvation before time began. Even before He created this earth He knew all of the mistakes mankind would make and decided on a plan to save us from those mistakes. It is my belief that this is what the scripture is talking about when we read about foreknowledge and predestined and "chosen" - the creating of disciples(beginning with His coming to Earth and being the model for those who followed),who are/were willing to go out into the field to work for the harvest. I am not a doctrinal scholar, My degrees are not in religion, but I do read my bible and pray and meditate on what I read. While I think researching our faith is a wonderful thing, and we should all know what we believe,(and why we believe it)so that we can find community with people of like minds, I think that people who are willing to become bogged down in any doctrine, particularly predestination are looking for a reason as to why God chose to offer them salvation, either because they are feeling guilty over past sin (Why did God find me redeemable? Even though I sinned there must be something more loveable in me for there to be an acceptance of Christ when others don't accept)or they feel that because they haven't sinned in the ways many have they must have been created in some way better than those who don't accept salvation.
For me, it comes down to the great commandment and the great commision. Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. And, Love your neighbor as yourself. That would make sanctification more important because this is the process that leads us into a greater knowledge of who Christ is and how we can walk more fully in Him each day. I don't see the Lord telling His disciples to "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you" if He hadn't left an opening for "any one", "any man", or "whosoever believes in Him".
Just my thoughts,
Leslie
Ok, I got my TULIP acronym meanings out of whack. But that is not really relevant. What I am asking(and have already answered, judt wanted other input) is what is YOUR defense, or do you have one. What do you say to someone who asks?
Hey Laura,
It is good and right to want to understand as much as we can about the ways of God in salvation. Humble inquiry into the meaning of puzzling Scripture is not wrong. What is wrong is an attitude that presents itself to being right and argumentative. (I thoroughly enjoy Together for the Gospel discussions--as an example of this)
As a reminder, I think it is wise to remember 2 Timothy 3:7, we do not want to be like people who are always learning & never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
We should also be people who strive to become one who can instruct others rather than always being the confused questioner. I do not believe you have to be a Bible Scholar to understand the truths of God. Pray, pray,pray---ask for wisdom.
But, to answer the specific question you were asking.....
Why evangelize?
Because God commanded us to.
To be used as a channel of His grace and to be actively involved in God's work.
Because the gospel has to be proclamated.
I personally do not believe that "all men" is talking in an individual and universal sense but rather refers to all levels and groups of men. God is not willing that any group be excluded for salvation. This goes back to the 5 points of Calvinism and Rev.5:9. Limited atonement is where most people get hung up---it's like the Trinity, it's hard to wrap our feeble minds around it. Piper says it best when he states:
We can conclude this section with the following summary argument. Which of these statements is true?
1. Christ died for some of the sins of all men.
2. Christ died for all the sins of some men.
3. Christ died for all the sins of all men.
No one says that the first is true, for then all would be lost because of the sins that Christ did not die for. The only way to be saved from sin is for Christ to cover it with his blood.
The third statement is what the Arminians would say. Christ died for all the sins of all men. But then why are not all saved? They answer, Because some do not believe. But is this unbelief not one of the sins for which Christ died? If they say yes, then why is it not covered by the blood of Jesus and all unbelievers saved? If they say no (unbelief is not a sin that Christ has died for) then they must say that men can be saved without having all their sins atoned for by Jesus, or they must join us in affirming statement number two: Christ died for all the sins of some men. That is, he died for the unbelief of the elect so that God's punitive wrath is appeased toward them and his grace is free to draw them irresistibly out of darkness into his marvelous light.
(if you want to read that entire article just click Piper's name on the link under my Reformed Charismatic--it's not just an oxymoron post.)
Anyhow.....
the doctrine of predestination should make us even more zealous in evangelizing!! It gives us hope, it reassures us that His word will not come back void, He has sheep that are not of this fold. Why did you recognize the voice of Jesus when He called you? B/c you are His sheep. It's not the other way around. Us Reformers should be the most evangelizing folks we know! Sorry to get so long winded.....there's just so much under this topic!! It's absolutely humbling and amazing when you are able to get even a tiniest hint of understanding of these truths. Oh how our eyes still see so dimly. It's all about grace----pure and sweet grace.
your husband who is in seminary class with me, asked me to check into your blog and weigh in...
My answer would be "Why would you not witness if you knew that people were guaranteed to believe?" God ordains the means as well as the end. Why should we not accept that the same God who decreed that people will believe the "foolishness of the cross" should decree that they will do so through the foolishness of preaching. (I cor. 1:17-18)
by the way...people who declare that God just "knows" who will come to salvation (keeping the human will as sovereign over God's.) have a difficult question to answer as well..." If God just knows who will choose him...why share the gospel? - because some people will never believe...If God can't change their mind...who am I?
The bigger question under these questions is...apart from God initiating a relationship with us, who would know God at all? People who come to Christ do so because God has caused the Gospel to be preached where they can hear.
Romans 10 follows Romans 9.
Grace in Christ,
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